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Re: You would think so, Patsy.

Posted by Cassie on 1/13/06
(117) Comments
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    1) The facts are also -plentiful- that a clipped parrot can be happier and
    healthier and better to one that is flighted IF THE OWNER IS SMART MAKES THE RIGHT
    DESCISIONS FOR THE PARROT, clipped or not. As long as the owner gives them the
    right environment to support the growth of ALL senses, and keep them fit, then
    there is no need for the "lazy way" out.

    2) We do not have wild habitates in our home. "Credentials" and "research" of how
    flight helps their BREEDER parrots will not apply to the home base. This is
    scientific sludge. A wild parrot that is clipped would not thrive in the home
    environment while clipped parrot, who has spent most of their young lives with
    humans and not put into a wild-habit situation, is better off. Please stop throwing
    this crap at us. I have already said there are too many variables for this to work,
    yet you have not said why. There are too many questions, and too many possiblities,
    too many breeds of birds THIS AVIARY HAS NOT WORKED WITH to make a strong base for
    this research.

    Once they start breeding regular American Parakeets, Lovebirds, Toucans; see how
    they interact in the wild-type habitat; see how they interact from hatch, see how
    they interact in the home base (and I mean different combinations of birds at
    different ages) and set forth this information on a CLIPPED AND NONCLIPPED basis,
    then I will consider the benifits. This is a one-sided site with a VERY liberal
    skew. Only when they have worked with all possible breeds of domesticated birds and
    compare and contrast notes on the clipped and nonclipped side, then it will be
    valid to the common household.

    Parrot University, while informitive, is not seeing the whole picture as it would
    in the home with 1-3 birds, different ages, different species, different
    backgrounds. There are way too many theories and proven points on several species
    this pages does not even hit on.

    Nor does this page adequatly state the dangers of flighted parrots just "myths",
    which I have already given several instances to I have seen in my lifetime, that
    have shattered this "positive" outlook on pro-flight, especially with Lovebirds,
    which you have apparently do not have a clue as to what dangers they pose to any
    other species. They have been known to get themselves killed for taking on each
    other, not to mention bigger parrots.

    You just keep going back to that ONE page. ONE page of "scientific" discoveries.
    Bring me more info, then I might consider it. There is way too much information on
    why we SHOULD clip versus your single site/article that you have yet to prove to me
    has any signifigance to MY particular birds.

    You can't prove it, I won't change my mind. Plus, you have yet to DISPROVE any of
    the points I have made, of which have been the backbone of contestment in this
    lousy debate other then "they are happier and healthier". You have backed down
    EVERY time and said "Well, I refer you to this", which is that crap article on only
    a fraction of the species of birds that could possibly live in our homes. There is
    not enough "valid" evidence in that one site that would make Lovebird, Toucan and
    Parakeet owners (who, might I add, were completely overlooked in this article
    because they are species this aviary breeds) keep from clipping their birds.

    "And no longer are we made to feel irrisponsible"? Disestablishmentarianism. Aren't
    you just the rebel. If I remember right, you were the one who started the second
    fiasco, so don't turn it on those who disagree with you. Let the "fool" be the one
    who starts a "movement against the norm", but cannot drum up the substantial
    resources to change minds.

    On 1/13/06, Patsy wrote:
    > You proclip people are so desperately trying to make a point you are making fools
    > of yourselves. The accusations, and name calling should make you ashamed of
    > yourselves! I am ashamed to even be associated with a board that allows such
    > behavior.
    >
    >
    > I have to bring this back to where it began days ago:
    >
    > 1) The ability of flight does make a Happier and Healthier parrot. The facts
    > are plentiful. You can find the links at the very beginning of these threads. If
    > people chose to ignore them that's there choice.
    >
    >
    > 2) I must also bring up the original posting made by The Parrot University were
    > very scientific offering valid evidence and impressive experience and
    > credentials. But you are only listening to what you want to hear.
    >
    >
    > The truth is times are changing. No longer are we made to feel irresponsible for
    > allowing our parrots to live as they were intended...full flighted! Hopefully,
    > for the sake of the birds, owners will open their eyes enough to see the change
    > before it is too late.
    >
    >